It's rare to be disarmed and charmed in equal measure by an artist as new to her music career as Audrey Hobert. But in fact, when we jumped on a Zoom call to speak about her new album Who's the Clown?, beaming to each other from our respective living room couches, she was just that: charming... and disarmingly so.

Maybe you know Hobert as the songwriting counterpart to some of Gracie Abrams' biggest hits – or to her brother, and fellow musician, Malcom Todd. Perhaps you've come across her own infectious melodies and music videos online, from the catchy chorus of Sue Me, to her more recent single Bowling Alley (be honest, who hasn't attempted that choreography in their bathroom mirror a few times already?).

But to most, Hobert is a relatively new name and face. One refreshingly charismatic and imbued with a self-assuredness that honestly, few ever come to possess. The word 'authentic', while a tad overused, feels fitting for Hobert. She's like a Girls character come to life. Hilarious, brazen, unafraid of referencing the weird or the vulgar.

It wasn't long after hearing her music that I was entranced by her humour and candour, and was quickly burrowing through my email inbox in pursuit of someone who might be able to get me in touch. I sent an email out into the ether. Luckily, there came a response.

And so, only a week out from the release of her debut album Who's The Clown?, Hobert jumped on a call with me from her Los Angeles living room. She's perched on her couch with an unaffected ease for someone doing press, and instantly greets me with a smile.

Here, she speaks candidly about her first creative loves, her unexpected turn into the world of music, and the ideal setting for your first listen to the new record.

Hi Audrey! How are you?

I'm good! I feel like we look like we could be sisters.

I was going to say! It's the red hair... Every time I see a new pop singer with red hair, I'm very excited about it.  It was Chappell Roan, and now, you. So we're really dominating out there.

Hell yeah! We love the red hair.

How are you? How's your day been?

It's been good. Yeah, busy. Just getting ready to put this thing out. How about you?

I'm good! Is that your study you're in?

This is just my living room. I guess it is a study in ways.

Well, I'm excited to speak with you today. I got sent your album link last week to have a listen before we spoke, and I honestly, really, really loved it.

Oh, thank you!

I feel like you already have such a distinctive style of songwriting. Who were some of your songwriting heroes growing up?

Taylor Swift. From a very early age I was able to recognise that she had her craft dialled in. And it's never wavered in my opinion.

And you also grew up in a very tight-knit, creative family. Did you always feel like you had that creative itch? Would you have been the black sheep if you wanted to be an accountant?

Oh, for sure. I mean, I'm the oldest of four kids – and my two parents are very creative. All four of us were like The von Trapps. We all sang – and my sister and I grew up dancing. My brother Malcolm and I were both writers, but my brother Charlie does stand up from time to time and is like, the funniest joke writer I know. We all just eat, sleep and breathe it.

I love that. So it's always been in your blood then.

Yes, for sure.

And before songwriting, your first loves were film and theatre and dance. I know you studied film at NYU, leading into COVID. Is that still something that you're hoping to return to?

Oh yeah, for sure! For sure, for sure, for sure! It's my big plan. I'm going to do it one day – theatre and television specifically. I have big plans for myself.

Do you feel like you have a distinct voice between screenwriting and songwriting, or do you feel like they kind of bleed into each other a bit?

That's a good question. I feel like, all in all, my voice is my voice. It's the same. And you know, it's in everything I do – like when I pick up a water bottle it's my voice, and then when I'm writing a short story, it's also my voice. But I will say, I find songwriting much easier than screenwriting.

Really? Why is that?

Yeah! I think because with songwriting, you can immediately tell if it's good. Just, melodically. To write a feature length film, or even a pilot script – it just takes so much strength to push through with long form. But writing a short story is a little bit easier, because it's not like less needs to happen, but there's just less room. And then I find songwriting to be in a similar camp. Like, this shouldn't really extend beyond four minutes, so... figure it out! Make it concise.

Totally. I'm actually reading Julia Cameron's memoir Floor Sample at the moment. She's the person who created that whole The Artist's Way writing technique.

Oh my god she has a memoir? Oh, wow.

Yeah, she does! I wanted to know, do you subscribe to that kind of writing process where you allocate time to effectively word vomit onto a page? Or do you feel like it has to come to you?

I will say, I did give The Artist's Way a whirl, like, a year ago. And it's funny, because I have the notebook where I was doing it, and I just re-read it, and it's like "I just stared out the window for 10 minutes" – because you're supposed to wake up and do it before you do anything else. I don't know, it's hard to say. I am sort of always writing things down wherever I go. And, yeah, inspiration strikes all day. But if I'm really going to work on a song, I have to hunker down and shut out everyone and everything and just focus on the song.

I was reading your Substack as well recently, which I love, and I just kept thinking, god I so wish I was as effortlessly funny as you are when you write.

Oh, thank you!

I feel like you have such a fun sense of humour. And even listening to the album, it came across in your songs – especially tracks like Sex and the City. It got me thinking about how, in a lot of ways, writing funny lyrics can sometimes be more vulnerable than writing sad lyrics. Like, I think there's something so terrifying about a joke not landing or people misunderstanding you – I think that's why stand up seems so scary to people. Do you ever worry about whether people will get a joke when you're writing one, especially in a song format?

Oh my gosh – I've been itching to talk about this! It was something that I actively understood. While I was writing these songs, I would sometimes have a thought for a line, the line would immediately make me laugh, and then, sort of immediately after, I would wonder, not if the joke was going to land, but if people were going to follow. And so, pretty early on, I decided that I was going to stop asking myself that. Because I think where songs and lyrics fall flat and become bad is when you wonder if they're going to get it. That is just something I talked about a lot in school and with my friends who are also writers.

"It's imperative to me that you assume that the listener is as smart as you, because I just think that's where you're going to get the sharpest, best writing."

 

I'm always writing up to whoever the listener is. I think you're doing yourself and your listener a disservice by assuming that they don't get it or are not following – because people are very smart. And you know, if it makes me laugh and it makes me excited, then I just assume that's what how the listener is gonna feel.

I know you've co–written songs now for your brother and your best friend, but how do you know when a song feels like it's for you?

Well, all of my album is written entirely by me. I don't really see a world in which I ever write with someone else for me, just because I'm too much of a control freak and I have way too much fun on my own. But, I enjoy collaboration so much – especially if I'm writing with two people as smart and as good as Gracie and Malcolm.

Your shift into music began with those songs that you started writing with Gracie. What was that initial conversation like? Who initiated the idea of collaborating?

There was no conversation. We were living together at the time, and we very naturally started writing a song together. I had never written music, and she had this incredible career and all of this experience writing music. So, I felt just very lucky that she was including me, and it really was just – and I still feel with her – like a fun activity for us.

I love that. How did you decide which songs from your album would be singles?

Well, Sue Me – when I made it – I knew it would be the first song I put out. It was early on in the process, but I just had such a feeling about that one. I remember finishing it and going "without a doubt, this will be the first song I put out". Bowling Alley was more of a... it wasn't a fight, but I just knew that it was, aside from it being entirely me, very dissimilar to Sue Me. I feel like Bowling Alley on the album is such a concise, sharp representation of who I am as a person. I figured, I may as well throw that one out second and see who globs on because... that's me. I'm not looking for a viral moment with putting the song out second. I just wanted to introduce myself as the writer that I am.

Bowling Alley does feel like this perfect entry point to the rest of the album. And you have such a filmic background, did you approach writing, Who's The Clown? with a story arc or a mood?

You know what? Actually, not at all in the track listing. There's no through line in terms of story, mostly because I feel like all of these songs, – like quite a few of these songs – are completely fictitious. Like Bowling Alley and Sex and the City are two songs that never happened to me. But, as I would finish songs, I would just sort of throw them in randomly. I can't explain why the track list is the way it is, but it just made complete sense to me. Also, it was a visual thing to see the titles all next to each other, on top of each other in that way – it just made sense.

"I'm not looking for a viral moment with putting [Bowling Alley] out second. I just wanted to introduce myself as the writer that I am."

You've used this motif of a clown, both in the title, but also in some of the videos. Could you explain that a little more? What does that represent to you, and why was it important to include?

Well, yeah, I mean, so Sex and the City was a very early song I wrote, and it was the first song that I worked really hard on. I wrote that song for a week and a half straight, and when I finished it, the night I finished it, the morning after I woke up, I was like, awoken at six in the morning, and I was like, "The album is called Who's The Clown? and the cover is me smiling at the camera, and then behind me a window, and then behind the window a clown staring at me". I just had that in my head, and I didn't know where it came from.

I sort of related it to knowing that I was going to be a new artist and that, as a new artist, you have to sort of grab people's attention. I  thought, what better way to do that than to scare people? [Laughs.] So I knew I wanted the clown on the album cover to be in prosthetics and scary – just because I didn't think there'd be anything interesting about me, posing semi-sexually and looking really good. I just think that there's a lot of that out there, and we don't need more of that. So I wanted to scare people. And the clown, it being called, Who's The Clown?, I just thought it was funny like that, there's a clown in the photo, and then there's me, and then I ask, "Who is the clown?" I feel like it's just sort of clownish to write an entire album.

No, that's perfect. And I love that whoever sticks around after being scared will be the right kind of audience as well.

Exactly!

So what do you hope people feel once they listen to this album for the first time? And... is there an ideal setting for a first listen?

Oh, good question! Um, what I hope people feel? I think two things: I think, firstly, my greatest hope for this album, and me promoting it and performing it and putting it out there, is that people feel inspired to be themselves, and that everywhere they go on this planet, they feel entirely comfortable in their own skin. That's all I want. And then, I also hope people feel impressed by the writing. [Laughs.] As for an ideal place for a first listen? I've had so many different first listening experiences that are like, with friends or in the car or wearing headphones alone. I sort of always liked it in headphones alone, or in headphones with your friend who loves music as much as you do.

Totally agree. And then there's nothing like a good listening session in the car.

Listen, that's always a good one. I love the car.

Well thanks for your time! Hopefully you'll come to Australia one day soon?

Thank you so much. My Australian sister! And yes, soon! I will! I'm going to!

Audrey Hobert's album Who's the Clown? is available now on all streaming platforms.